Urethane Highlights from Huntsman Investors Call
Huntsman (HUN) Peter R. Huntsman on Q3 2015 Results – Earnings Call Transcript
Thank you very much, Kurt. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to join us this morning. Let's turn to slide number 3. Adjusted EBITDA for our Polyurethanes division in the third quarter 2015 was $168 million. MDI urethanes margins expanded compared to the prior year, as our differentiated portfolio continued to deliver high profitability and low earnings volatility.
During the quarter, our MDI urethanes business was impacted by two headwinds. First, compared to the prior year, we experienced $26 million of negative EBITDA from foreign currency exchange as a result of the stronger U.S. dollar, primarily against the euro. Secondly, we were impacted by the slowdown in China leading to negative year-on-year volume growth and placing downward pressure on component polymeric MDI margins.
15% of our global MDI urethanes volumes are sold into China, of which approximately 50% are differentiated MDI or MDI systems. In contrast, our European market continues to grow, and through the first nine months of 2015, we have increased MDI volumes by 8% in this region, driven by strengthening demand in automotive, commercial insulation, and composite wood product applications. Our European business represents 40% of our global MDI urethanes sales volume and is our most differentiated region.
Jim M. Sheehan – SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, Inc.
Thanks. Peter, could you give us your current outlook on MDI operating rates by region?
Peter R. Huntsman – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director
Well, I think that as we look at that on a by-region basis, and again, as I look at that on a regional basis, I don't have the information as to what competitors are doing. And so, as I look at that, it's – I'm taking a stab at these sort of rates. But if I look at the Asia market, you're probably looking at somewhere in the very high-70%s to around an 80% capacity utilization. As I look around Europe, you're probably in the high 80%s to 90% capacity utilization. And the Americas is somewhere around the 90% capacity utilization.
I will remind you that those are very macro numbers on the industry. And as you look at your downstream businesses where we have seen margins fall on the more commoditized end of our MDI supply chain, on the more specialty end of the MDI supply chain, many of those grades, I won't say that they are impervious to supply capacity utilization, but they're far less sensitive to capacity operating rates.
I'd also remind you that as you look at some of those downstream derivative products, you may be long in Asia, but shipping a lot of those products cryogenically where you have – it's very expensive to ship and the longer those products are on the water, if you will, they start to discolor and so forth.
So the idea that you've got too much capacity in one region and perhaps better balance in another, that doesn't necessarily mean that the balanced region is going to be flooded by the region that's overbalanced. So I hope that makes sense. What I'm trying to say, it's more than just a simple capacity rate exercise to see where profitability is in polyurethanes.
J. Kimo Esplin – Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President
And maybe specifically I can add, Jim, again, we mentioned that 30% of our urethane business is this component business and we mentioned the China component margins have dropped, where in China roughly half of our business is component. But in the Americas and in Europe, our margins have remained relatively healthy in that component area. So it's been primarily limited to sort of Chinese pressure right now.
Aleksey Yefremov – Nomura Securities International, Inc.
Thank you, Peter. And a follow-up question on your MDI volume softness in the Americas, what was the reason behind that? Is there any connection with what's happening in MDI in Asia? Thank you.
Peter R. Huntsman – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director
No, I don't think that it's any connection with MDI in Asia. I think that we've had year-to-date looking at the numbers. I think that we just had a slower construction market than we would have expected. And as we look at some of the construction and the insulation markets and so forth, those have been softer than I would have expected.
They were particularly softer at the beginning of the year. And as you've seen with housing starts and so forth, we've seen a stronger number late in the third quarter, beginning of the fourth quarter. So I think a later start than what most people probably anticipated, including us. But I don't see a lot of MDI products that are produced in North America that are shipped to Asia that would be adversely affected by the slowdown in Asia.
J. Kimo Esplin – Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President
And that insulation construction market that we're pointing to that was soft for us is largely a commercial construction market for us.
Hassan I. Ahmed – Alembic Global Advisors LLC
Peter, a quick question on the MDI side of things. One of your competitors, one of your sort of publicly-traded U.S. company competitors talked about polyurethane strength and they particularly cited China in Q3. So I'm just trying to get a sense. I mean, my understanding is you guys, obviously, saw weakness in the overall MDI market. I'm just trying to get a sense, was it sort of share losses? Was it de-stocking? Was it the overall market compressing? Or a combination of all three?
Peter R. Huntsman – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director
Well, I think there's the trend – first of all, I'm not aware of any customer that we have lost or any market share that we have lost in the Chinese market in the third quarter. So I think that what we saw in the third quarter, and I compare that with other products within Huntsman in the third quarter, I compare that with what some of our largest Chinese competitor has seen in past quarters, and what some of our other competitors that have Chinese manufacturing footprints have reported in China, I don't think that our numbers are at all inconsistent with what others have done.
The company, and I'm not sure we're both talking about the same company you made reference to earlier, but they probably may have other urethane products in their portfolio, maybe starting from a different volume base than what Huntsman has. I'm just – again, without looking at details on the numbers, can't accurately comment on that.
But, again, I think that the market conditions that we're seeing in China, we certainly are not losing customers or market share. And I think that we supply into everything from automotive to construction, to footwear, to personal products, consumer products and so forth. I think we have a very wide base that's reflective of the overall Chinese GDP.
David Wang – Morningstar Research
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Just wanted to ask a little bit more about polyurethane volumes and margins. How much of the EBITDA growth that you expect should be predicated on China growth at current levels or a little higher, weaker than we saw in Q3? I'm wondering because we've seen some capacity additions by yourself and competitors in the region and just as we're seeing demand sort of decelerating. So it'd be great if you can add some color on that.
Peter R. Huntsman – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director
I think that as we look at our MDI growth in margin and in volume, I would put much greater emphasis on what we're seeing in Europe and North America, both in margin expansion and to some degree volume expansion, given the fact that these two products – or these two markets alone make up greater than 80% of our overall demand globally.
Again, China's a great market. It's always going to be there, and it's going to be longer-term. It's going to be a continuously growing market for us. But when we talk about MDI and we talk about polyurethanes, we talk about downstream differentiation, we talk about where we have our lowest cost production platforms, where we have the most extensive networks, they're in North America and Europe, and that will be where the future of our margin expansion overall for the company is going to be.
J. Kimo Esplin – Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President
And the expansion we've done in China, specifically in MDI, is a plant with BASF that is a 2018 plant. And so, that is out there a ways. We're currently selling all of our product that is produced in China and MDI we're completely sold out.
Peter R. Huntsman – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director
Matter of fact, we're importing MDI into China and buying product for resale in China. So it's a good market for us.
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